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Transcript by Derek Oyen 

[Intro theme music] 

Derek: Thirdly was yesterday, and so everybody comes in. They fly in people from all over the country – from Minnesota, from Virginia, from California, and I’m realizing, “Tthis is what a normal office was like four years ago.” But it’s so weird today. But the energy was great. On one side I was like, “You’re invading my space.” Oon one side. It’s like, “It’s so great to see all these people” on the other side. 

Jesse: I totally agree with that. And it’s actually funny how many people I talked to yesterday are like, “I’ve never seen the office so full.” I’m like, “Really?” I feel like three years ago this was … 

Derek: This is normal! 

Jesse: … Monday through Friday. So, it’s not like this is totally, like, crazy, but I think the thing with it now is you’re so used to it not being like that, that. When all of a sudden people do come in, everyone’s like, “I haven’t seen you in forever.” So, it becomes harder to, I guess, go about your normal tasks. 

Derek: You don’t get any work done.  

Jesse: Exactly.  

Derek: But that’s the magic of this kind of day. 

Jesse: Yeah. And if there’s one person you don’t want to tell that you’re not getting any work done, it’s our guest today [All: Laughing], and we’re going to start with introducing her by reading Two Truths and a Lie that she was nice enough to provide us with. Derek, have you read these on your own yet? They’re all pretty remarkable. 

Derek: They are remarkable and yes, you did read them to me yesterday and I thought, “OK.” 

Jesse: Yeah, you want to start us off?. 

Derek: Yes, Truth or Lie number one:. “I am a New Zealand citizen.” A Kiwi.” 

Jesse: This one I think a lot of people will be interested in:. “I was on ‘The Bachelor.’” 

Derek: And third, “I am a descendant of Wyatt Earp.” 

Jesse: All right, so let’s find out … 

Derek: From the O.K. Corral days. 

Jesse: Is that who it is? 

Derek: Yeah. He was the sheriff.  

Jesse: OK.  

Derek: “Tombstone.”  

Jesse: OK. Well, let’s have our have our guests introduce themselves and we’ll try to guess which one of these is a lie. 

Alison: Good morning. I’m Allison Clark and, yeah, just knew here to Marcus Thomas. This, I think yesterday or today, is my four months. So new, and I’m the Chief Client Officer. 

Jesse: Wow. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Maybe the most “new” employee that we’ve had on the show yet. 

Derek: Without question. 

Jesse: Yeah, that’s an interesting perspective there that you’ll have of somebody who’s just kind of new to Marcus Thomas.  

Alison: Love it. 

Jesse: Derek, do you have a guess? 

Derek: So, in my head, these go through a spectrum of feasibility. In my brain, the most likely is Wyatt Earp, because “descendant” can mean a lot of different things. The second most likely is New Zealand and the third most likely is “The Bachelor.” So, I’m going to go with “was on ‘The Bachelor.’” 

Jesse: So that we can differ, I’m going to say the “New Zealand citizen” is a lie, even though I do think you’re probably correct here. So, Allison? 

Derek: Allison’s the one that knows. 

Jesse: Yeah. Do you want to share with us which is the lie here? 

Alison: “The Bachelor” is the lie. But the truth would be I was almost on “The Bachelor.” 

Derek: OK, there is a story. Excellent. OK. 

Alison: There is a story there. Many, many years ago. So, this “Bbachelor” franchise has been going on forever. I had a really good friend who, unbeknownst to me, nominated me. Aand I was at work –— I was at DBB Chicago –— and I got a phone call from a producer asking me to submit answers to questions and submit a video, and I thought, “Wwho the heck?” Obviously, I had not submitted for myself. So, a number of rounds of interviews, a number of rounds of questions, and submitted a video. At that point that was really hard to kind of put together, but did with some friends. And I had a blast. Just didn’t take it seriously and I thought, “I don’t know if I really want to quit my job and go to LA and deal with all these crazy crying people,” but I was in my 20s and thought, “Hey, what the heck?” So, did all this work and never heard from it. I thought, “Hey, fine, not a big deal.”  

That season was Andrew Firestone, and he ended up getting engaged to someone from Chicago named Jen Schefft. Someone I would see out in the town. Well, five or six years later, I was on a plane, and I ran into a sorority sister, and she said, “Oh, my gosh, I have to tell you something.” I’m like, “What?” I’m like, “I haven’t seen you since college. It’s been forever.” She said, “I was a producer on ‘The Bachelor,’ and I saw your submission.” Aand I’m like, “OK, this is really weird. This is really creepy. What are the chances?” And she said, “Iit was down to you and Jen to go from Chicago to the show and to the series.” And I thought, “Tthat’s really weird and creepy, but kind of OK that I didn’t get selected.” [Derek: laughing] I don’t know if I would have wanted that. So, I think it’s kind of just an interesting story and I think it, I don’t know, I think it was a little bit better than i. It is now, but anyway.  

Jesse: Because you got so close though, did you ever think about auditioning again? 

Alison: Oh, God, no.  

Jesse: No?  

Alison: No. Well, I take that back. They called me two or three years later. This time the producers came to Chicago and were meeting with people and I thought,. “Yeah, I’ll go meet with them,” but it was … it felt weird. I don’t know. I feel like the show had got a little more creepy and a little more dramatic. A little more fake-ish by then. So, I met with them because, you know, why not? But I wasn’t actively worried about it or trying to get on the show at all. 

Jesse: Well, we could talk about “Tthe Bbachelor” all day, [Alison: laughing] and I’m almost thinking we should have another podcast where we do, but tell us a little bit about your role at Marcus Thomas and what brought you to Marcus Thomas. 

Alison: Yeah. So, I am fortunate enough to help run the Account account Management management group. I’ve been in account management my entire career, and there’s just a lot of great, amazing, talented folks, like yourself, in this group, in this team. So, I look at it as helping write the next chapter. Because there’s already such a great book, such a great story, such great talent, amazing tenure of people that have chosen to stay at Marcus Thomas for a long time and work with her our clients that have stayed with us for a really long time. So, iIt’s a lot of just looking out and looking for ways that I can help, I can bring my experience to help. And I think that was the biggest thing that I was really drawn to. Not only the amazing people, the leadership team that I was able to meet during the interview process, but just, I wasn’t walking into a shit show of like, “Ccome in and fix all the problems.” bBut “Tthere’s so many good things here, but just  hhelp us write the next chapter. Help us see what we’re not seeing.” Bring my experience in from the outside and yeah, I just think this agency is so amazing and wonderful and poised for growth that it’s just an honor to be here. 

Derek: Not wanting to make you feel anxious or put pressure, but. Mark Bachmann [Alison: Amazing],, 30,- plus years,. yYou know, founding partner and, “Ooh, here’s Allison to fill his shoes.” You’re part of this transition that we’re seeing happening that not everybody’s 100% comfortable with. Because these people that we’ve known forever are no longer at the helm. New people are there. How pressured do you feel, being the “new kid” here in that role? 

Alison: Well, I have to give him all the credit. He has been nothing but extremely generous and extremely kind and really thoughtful about making introductions and setting the tone and the stage as much as he possibly can. Oh, and trust me, I know what giant shoes I’m attempting to fill. So, I fully know that and I appreciate that. But no, he’s been nothing but kind of and generous to make me feel as comfortable as I think that I possibly can with that and with his legacy that he has established and has done so much for this agency. 

Derek: I think we have such trust in Mark and Jim and the … I’ll call it “the prior leadership” that he wouldn’t have picked you if you weren’t a good choice. So, I don’t want to give you pressure, you know, we absolutely trust him. You’ve got a lot of big agency experience across the country in major markets. Why Cleveland of all these places? You’ve been in Chicago, you’re in Minneapolis now, where you live, right? 

Alison: Yup. 

Derek: East Coast, West Coast. Here you are in the Midwest. [Alison: laughing] Plunked into little Cleveland. 

Alison: You know, it comes down to … I’ve worked at the big shops, you know, really big famous shops that are just have wonderful people. But there’s also some wonderful egos that go with it. And to me it was about the opportunity, and it was about the people here with earnest goals and earnest direction for what this agency could be. You know, I’ve worked at the shops that were going to Cannes and, you know, winning the Lions and winning the Effies and doing … and it was great. It was wonderful. But it was like we were peak and like, what more is peak? Whereas I feel like the relative unawareness or non-awareness of Marcus Thomas across the nation … lLike, in, in Ohio, huge. Everyone knows. Huge, famous, respected, statured agency. But I think there’s a huge opportunity outside of Ohio to have more of a national presence. You already do, but have even more, and I’m hoping to use my experience and just a different background to help with that next chapter.  

So, it was to me about great people, great leadership with a great opportunity for the company where I felt like I could see where I could fit in and be an addition to the team versus another agency, where it’s like, “Wwe just want you to come in and don’t do anything. Just sit here. Just pull the same levers but be a different person.” That’s, to me, the definition of failure and something that I would never want to walk into. Whereas Mark is being great and kind and gracious to say, “Yeah, I think there’s more things we can do. I think there’s more opportunities.” So, I bounce ideas off him and I bounce ideas off the leadership team, and I want to really make sure I’m understanding the DNA that exist here and I just get to add and build to it versus do anything to blow it up. But every idea I’ve had, even small or large, I’ve been met with, “Yeah. Oh, that makes sense. Let’s talk about that. Let’s … I’m really interested in hearing more about that.” So, I wanted to come into a culture where I could be additive. I really believe in servant- style leadership. It’s not about me. It’s not about my ego. It’s not about me getting press. It’s about, “Hhow can I help the amazing talent that’s here and, you know, take away barriers or provide coaching, or you know, whatever is needed that I can do to help?”. 

Jesse: Are there any specific areas that you’ve seen that you’re really excited about this? Or any areas that you see that could use some growth? 

Alison: Areas I’m excited about – I don’t think the agency in total gets enough credit for the talent that exists here. I mean, I’ve worked at other agencies where they have a lot of disciplines in-house, but they kind of scratch the surface versus being real experts in what they do. Whereas I think Marcus Thomas has amazing experts, and I think there’s so much more that we can do with more awareness and understanding about the talent that exists within these walls. So, I think that’s to me a big opportunity and things that I’m excited about. You know, we were talking earlier as far as opportunity, I think, I mean, COVID blew up everything for everyone, y. You know, and what I think we’re thinking about as an agency here is not unique in the fact that we … people have just retreated to their homes, they’ve retreated to, you know, “I know, and I love this client. I’m going to just kind of stay in this swim lane and get done what I need to geted done and I’ll do it well.” Which we do and we’ve got the business results to show and prove it. But what I see is, “Bbut what else can we add to that?” What else can we define and choose for our agency?” So, I’m looking forward to, say, “Wwhat are the gaps that we can fill? How do we blow up some of these swim lanes?. How do we get more cross-departmental collaboration and cross-departmental thinking on big business problems?” I got some ideas to stir things up just a little bit. Not a lot, just a little bit. Could be gentle. 

Derek: A gentle explosion. 

Alison: Yeah. [laughing] 

Jesse: We’re excited to see what those things are.  

Alison: Thank you. 

Jesse: Yeah. And in terms of showcasing talent, I think that’s a great idea too. And I think, Derek, you had an idea one time about doing like a, like a sit-down show or something? We talk to people and they tell us about their ideas … [Alison: laughing] We should get that off the ground. That would be a good idea too. So, living in Minneapolis still now, are there any challenges with doing this job remotely? 

Alison: Not yet. I’m not naïve enough to say, “Oh, it’s going to be amazing and perfect.” But before I committed, I made sure that Delta flew direct from Minneapolis to Cleveland. That’s a huge part of it. I know that I can … it’s an hour- and- a- half flight – you throw an hour with the time zone change – but it’s not prohibitive to jump on a plane. And luckily, leadership has … they’re open to how and when I get here. So, my every-other-week cadence so far seems to be working, and I love it. Mark was actually joking, and he said, “Do you want to sit in my office?” Which is a little bit further away from kind of a main corridor. And I said, “Nno. I like kind of being in a little bit of a fishbowl location because when I’m here, I want to see people. And when I’m here, I want to spend time with people.” Because I can go retreat in Minnesota and be heads down and get some things done on my laptop. So, I always feel filled up by the people and spending time and the energy. 

Jesse: We were just talking last night how we want to do more account service outings too.  

Alison: Yeah! 

Jesse: Have you gotten to know the Cleveland area at all and do you have any recommendations? 

Alison: I know enough;, I’m curious about the Cleveland area. Everywhere I’ve gone to and I’ve been introduced to, I’ve loved it. It’s been great. It’s been lovely. Such a great, great city. But no, I one hundred precent need help, so any … please, please everyone that can listen to this on our team, I’m open to ideas, open to suggestions. I love getting together out of the office. Whatever it is, I’m open. I’m open. I … that’s culture. That’s connection. That’s getting to know people outside of just their role and function within the agency. 

Jesse: We obviously know you so well within the office right now, but what … are there any passions you have outside of work that you can share? 

Alison: Spending time with family, I mean – I know that kind of goes without saying here in the Midwest because people are so family- oriented – but that’s huge. Huge on my list. But outside of that, I think travel is big. I was trying to recount a bunch of trips that I took this year. One amazing one was to Ireland with a bunch of girlfriends. We just had way too much fun, and because I am a New Zealand citizen – that is truth; I was born there – and so my dad and I are trying to figure out how and when we get back to do a trip. My mom’s like, “No, I’m not interested,” or “You two just go.” So, getting that on the docket is a high priority as well. So, travel and then other than that, I love interior design. It’s just side hustle, side passion. My Instagram is filled with nothing but interior design ideas and blogs and furniture and constantly redoing a room in my house with something. 

Jesse: Derek, you’re a big travel person as well.  

Derek: I do enjoy to travel. 

Jesse: Have been to all seven continents? 

Derek: Not yet. 

Jesse: But six. 

Derek: Oceania is the one I have not. I’ve not been to Australia and New Zealand. It’s on my list. I’ll go. 

Allison: Yeah. 

Derek: I’ll go with you. 

Alison: Perfect. Come on. Yeah, I’m in. 

Derek: How long were you in New Zealand and where did you go from there? 

Alison: From what I’ve been told, I was born in Hamilton, New Zealand, which is on the North Island. And so, yeah, my dad was there for a work contract with a bunch of other families from Minneapolis. They were there for about a year – nine months to a year – and then did a bunch of traveling all through Asia and Europe. There’s stories where my mom fell asleep and then she looked over and my dad was fallenfell asleep and I wasn’t there. But my dad had given me to some people on the back of the train and my mom woke up and was like, “What the …” like, “Oh, my gGod!” I think the two of them had a lot of fun adventures with me as a kid. 

Jesse: And favorite place that you’ve traveled to? 

Alison: Oh, that’s so hard. Gosh. South Africa was amazing. Spent some time in Cape Town and wine country. Absolutely amazing, loved it. Traveled to Prague many, many years ago,. aActually, when I was in college. So, it was very freshly noncommunist. So, you really felt some of that old presence; that was just wonderful. London – I studied abroad in London, so London will always be one of my favorite cities on the entire planet. I just go there, and I feel at home, through my Clark ancestry on that side. And another place just last but not least, in Ireland, when I went with some friends this year, one of our friends is Irish and lives in Dublin and she took us to Adare Manor. Oh, my God. So, it’s a five-star resort that’s in a castle. And there’s a golf course around it. I just figured it was a beautiful hotel that just happened to have maybe, like, a par three. So, I asked Maeve, my Irish friend, and I’m like, “Ooh, you know, it’s just a couple … cute little golf course?” And she goes, “Nno., Tthey’re hosting the Ryder Cup here in 2027.” I was like, “Ooh, silly little me.” Yes, this is a very legit, very beautiful, very well-known and famous golf course. And we, of course, we went in and had dinner and saw a bunch of famous people that had played that day. So, absolutely stunning. 

Jesse: That sounds very nice. Yeah. Wow. To circle back. tTo work a little bit, because I guess we have to talk about work on this podcast too …. 

Derek: A little bit. 

Jesse: … wWhen we’re bringing on our onboarding or actually hiring a new account service person,. wWhat sort of qualities are you looking for? 

Alison: I always think that I can teach you how to get stuff done, how to move stuff through the system. But what I can’t teach is passion. What I can’t teach is curiosity. What I can’t teach is, you know, a desire to create great creative work. Any of our outputs that we make here are creative by nature and expression. So, it’s that, innate desire, passion to do more. Curiosity to get to know the client, to get to know the agency, to ask the question, “What if?” and “How about?” That’s the passion. That’s what I’m looking for because that’s what I can’t teach. 

Jesse: And me myself being in Account account Serviceservice, I just wanted to quickly point out how passionate and curious I am about things … [Alison and Derek: laughing] and billable and all those kinds of things. 

Derek: And “what if?” you know? 

Alison: Well, you’re already doing it. You’re living it. You’re creating a podcast. This is a huge “what if?” and “how might we?” and you’re making it happen. 

Derek: And a hundred percent driven by curiosity. 

Alison: Yeah. 

Jesse: When I first started at Marcus Thomas about seven years ago, a great piece of advice I got for working at in Account account sService was that managing the people is just as important as managing the projects and learning how each thing, each person, is different. Just like every project is different. When you first started, was there any great advice given to you that you can share? 

Derek: Stay away from Jesse. 

Alison: [laughing] 

Jesse: And they were kidding. 

Alison: Oh, Mark was so full of great, kind advice, and the rest of the leadership team, too, was so generous – and Nancy specifically – too … I guess it was maybe not advice specifically, but more of a culmination of conversations to really recognize and be mindful of the Marcus Thomas history. The success of this company, the success – we celebrated Jim Nash last night. Everything he grew and accomplished, everything Mark grew and accomplished, and you know, the other predecessors have done. So, just being very thoughtful and careful about respecting the history but still keeping a very Midwest sensibility as a tone that comes into it. I’ve been joking with some folks lately of, “I think we can get a little more – I’ll pick on Minnesota a little – a little more ‘“Chicago nice’” and maybe a little less ‘“Minnesota nice.’”” We can still be our Midwestern selves and things that are true, but make sure that, you know, we’re OK to speak up. We’re OK to ask questions. We’re OK to kind of push beyond, maybe, what’s expected within that. But all that to say, advice has been partly intuitive, but mostly confirmed by the leadership of just, “Rrespect what’s been happening and has happened,” just to confirm how important that is. 

Jesse: I thought it was great about yesterday too. You mentioned honoring Jim Nash, when Jamie Venorsky was speaking and he said they originally said, coming out of Youngstown, “Yyou can never be known in the Cleveland market. You’ll never be known, you know, statewide.” And now it’s “never be known on a national stage.” And now we’re in the process of making that happen. Could you share at all any steps you think need to be taken to continue to be known on a national stage? 

Alison: I think there’s a lot of different ways to do it. You know, press is one way to do it. You know, getting articles about our leadership in the markets, seeing the Marcus Thomas name. I think it’s courting the right clients that want to do great work. That want to do something different, that we can be attached and be proud of creating new work in the world that’s really going to make a difference and make an impact. I think that’s a very natural and organic way to do that. I think it’s creating additional connections with additional clients by going to conferences and spending time with people. No matter what we do, I think making sure that we stay true to our core values is also really, really important. To do it right, it’s slow and steady building, and I think we’ve got a lot of the building blocks in motion. 

Jesse: I totally agree. Yeah. 

Alison: So, you guys asked me about what advice. I ask that of both of you and Mikey too, because I’m still new. I’m still learning, and I still want to ask more questions and listen more than I speak. What advice do you have for me in my role and for the next chapter of Marcus Thomas? 

Jesse: I’d also like to point out that fun little Doctor Seuss rhyme you did of “me and you and Mikey, too, because I knew’m new.” [All: laughing] It was a lot of fun; that should be in a book. But that is a good question.  

Alison: That could be my headline. 

Derek: When I approached you for this, you were sitting in your office over there. I think really it’s about being visible. Because you’re remote, people don’t see you. People don’t know you. That’s part of the reason that we asked you to be on here. So, visibility. You are so approachable. People know that, and you’re here. Your door is open. The more you can make that known, I think the better. 

Alison: Love it. Thank you. 

Jesse: Yeah, you seem very approachable, and I think that’s a great thing. And that puts a lot of people at ease. And I think you were that way as soon as you came in trying to jump into different circles and talk to people and saying, "Ccome to my office., Mmy door is open.” So that’s extremely helpful, and I think that people appreciate that. 

Derek: You were an instant fit into the culture.  

Alison: So nice. Thank you. 

Derek: It’s like, “Hhow long has she been here? Oh, it’s only been four months?”  

Jesse: Yeah, right.  

Derek: That can’t be true. You’ve gotta have been here for at least three years, you know? 

Jesse: Yeah. 

Alison: That’s such an honor. A compliment. Thank you. 

Jesse: Yeah. And I can just point out being in the Account account Service service team, I know in those meetings, one switch we’ve noticed so far is you’ve kind of made them more conversational, which I think is actually really nice. We sit down and it’s not necessarily that you’re being presented to. It’s hey, “Llet’s talk about clients. Let’s talk about challenges. Let’s talk about things we’re facing.” And what’s interesting is we find a lot that even though we’re different clients, we can relate to the same type of struggles. 

Alison: Yes. 

Jesse: And we can help each other.  

Alison: Yes. 

Jesse: And I always felt like there should be more of that because I feel like if you work in one side of things, you’re not talking to the other side at all. And now it’s nice that that’s all kind of coming together and we’re having open dialogue about it. So that’s been great so far. 

Alison: Good. I really believe in that because there’s often, yeah, such similar struggles and so that means there’s probably a lot of other solutions that other people have already thought of or that you can apply to whatever situation you’ve got going on, or just a little bit of commiseration to understand that everyone’s working really hard. Everyone’s got a lot on their plate. Everyone’s, you know, trying to do the best that they can and just to be a little more seen is just a core, human nature, fundamental thing. So, if I, if I could do anything, it’s just to provide that connection and just have everyone really feel seen and valued on our team and in the agency in general of course, too. But I get the lucky honor of looking at the Account account Management management team a little, a little closer. 

Jesse: Sounds good. We look forward to continue to work for you … work with you and for you … 

[All: laughing] 

Alison: Well, thank you. 

Jesse: … for many, many years. So, thank you so much.  

Alison: Thank you, thank you.  

Jesse: All right. Thanks for being on the show today.,  

Derek: Thanks a lot, Alison. 

[Outro music starts] 

Derek: Today’s show is hosted by Jesse DiFranco and me, Derek Oyen. It was recorded and mixed by the man to my right, Mikey Nichols. Our theme was composed and recorded by David Bemer. Thanks, David. “Ask a Better Question” is produced in and by Marcus Thomas. The opinions on this show are not those of Marcus Thomas. You can take that up with Jesse and me. Ask a better question is produced in and by Marcus Thomas. The opinions on this show are not those of Marcus Thomas. You can take that up with. Jesse and me. 

[Outro music fades]